Post by darkstar on Nov 14, 2012 0:27:20 GMT -5
at 10:34am, Nov 13th, 2012 the state of ohio killed Brett Hartmann. First and foremost, I want to extend condolences to Brett's sister. The strength and anguish you must have right now is unimaginable.
That being said, I want to paint outside the lines here a little bit.. Whether Brett killed Winda, or not is ultimately irrelevant. What is important is what we learn from all of this. After all, it is all we can hope for now.
There are some real questions that I have. There are NOT rhetorical, I really WANT answers to them! Please be honest, and verbose.
1) How are we, as a society, better off, now that Brett is gone?
2) What if, in the future, Brett (or another inmate that has been executed) is deemed "innocent". How will we as a society reconcile?
3) Can the state return a life if, in the case the inmate was innocent?
4) Is it cost effective to execute someone? (please provide numbers!)
5) If executions are not "pubic", how can we be sure they are humane, and being carried out in a manner that is agreed upon? (be verbose here!)
6) As a member of a victim's family, can you demonstrate that an execution gives you a sense of justice that out weighs taking a human life? (be specific and VERY verbose on this point, please).
7) The cost of executing someone is enough to cover the cost of 5 life sentences of inmates. As a taxpayer, how is this the best use of my tax dollars? (please be specific, and provide numbers)
8) If given the chance, could YOU press the button to end someone's life?
9) What if it were someone close to ME. Could I be comforted by the death of the killer? (this one is mine, and my answer is a solid "i don't know")
10) Governor, Having someone's life / death in you're hands; Would it be different if you HAD to call and GIVE the order to execute, rather than simply not call and know it was done? (I really want an answer to this one!)
11) This one is a YES, or NO. I want NO commentary. "Is it acceptable to take a human life?" YES or NO?!
12 If "we" execute an innocent man, is that murder? AND, is not murder subject to the death penalty?
12a) If YOU were instrumental in executing an innocent man, would you accept being executed for that murder?
13) Is death a bad thing? We seem to reserve this penalty for the worst, but we all experience it. How does a condemned inmates "death" differ from YOUR death, or mine?
For me, Brett's execution yielded no sense of justice, only an empty feeling. As a member of a society that kills citizens that it deems unworthy, I feel it is my duty to not only investigate the facts, but to face the reality of it. I seem to be one of the very few who do this, and that in it's self is troubling. If my fellow citizens are so willing to impose such a sentence, should they not face the reality of it too? Or am I such an enigma that only 100s out of the millions in this state can attempt to process what is actually going on here?
In the case of Winda, the crime was extreme. The punishment, I believe should also be extreme, and some would argue that death is the only way to repay that debt. Again, I would point out that what we understand of death completely negates it as an effective punishment (or reward (I will explain this comment on request) ).
To be clear, I did not know Brett, Winda, any of their friends or family. I investigated the case in depth, and was unable to determine "guilt" or "innocence" (probably due to my limited access to information). On a more personal note, I mourn for Winda as I mourn for Brett the same. Odd, I admit, but true.
I only hope that someday, we all have the courage to face these issues truly, instead of simply say "an eye for an eye" and be done with it. Life, and probably death, are shades of grey.
I read Brett's last words to the warden. "This is not going to defeat me". Again, guilty or innocent, I would like to think the point is that of awareness. Brett asked me to ask "why". I'm asking .. why?
PS.
Diane, if there is anything I can do for you, please let me know what it is. And thank you for these forums! Not only does it give us a place to talk, it gives us hope. That is something we all need!
-Ben
That being said, I want to paint outside the lines here a little bit.. Whether Brett killed Winda, or not is ultimately irrelevant. What is important is what we learn from all of this. After all, it is all we can hope for now.
There are some real questions that I have. There are NOT rhetorical, I really WANT answers to them! Please be honest, and verbose.
1) How are we, as a society, better off, now that Brett is gone?
2) What if, in the future, Brett (or another inmate that has been executed) is deemed "innocent". How will we as a society reconcile?
3) Can the state return a life if, in the case the inmate was innocent?
4) Is it cost effective to execute someone? (please provide numbers!)
5) If executions are not "pubic", how can we be sure they are humane, and being carried out in a manner that is agreed upon? (be verbose here!)
6) As a member of a victim's family, can you demonstrate that an execution gives you a sense of justice that out weighs taking a human life? (be specific and VERY verbose on this point, please).
7) The cost of executing someone is enough to cover the cost of 5 life sentences of inmates. As a taxpayer, how is this the best use of my tax dollars? (please be specific, and provide numbers)
8) If given the chance, could YOU press the button to end someone's life?
9) What if it were someone close to ME. Could I be comforted by the death of the killer? (this one is mine, and my answer is a solid "i don't know")
10) Governor, Having someone's life / death in you're hands; Would it be different if you HAD to call and GIVE the order to execute, rather than simply not call and know it was done? (I really want an answer to this one!)
11) This one is a YES, or NO. I want NO commentary. "Is it acceptable to take a human life?" YES or NO?!
12 If "we" execute an innocent man, is that murder? AND, is not murder subject to the death penalty?
12a) If YOU were instrumental in executing an innocent man, would you accept being executed for that murder?
13) Is death a bad thing? We seem to reserve this penalty for the worst, but we all experience it. How does a condemned inmates "death" differ from YOUR death, or mine?
For me, Brett's execution yielded no sense of justice, only an empty feeling. As a member of a society that kills citizens that it deems unworthy, I feel it is my duty to not only investigate the facts, but to face the reality of it. I seem to be one of the very few who do this, and that in it's self is troubling. If my fellow citizens are so willing to impose such a sentence, should they not face the reality of it too? Or am I such an enigma that only 100s out of the millions in this state can attempt to process what is actually going on here?
In the case of Winda, the crime was extreme. The punishment, I believe should also be extreme, and some would argue that death is the only way to repay that debt. Again, I would point out that what we understand of death completely negates it as an effective punishment (or reward (I will explain this comment on request) ).
To be clear, I did not know Brett, Winda, any of their friends or family. I investigated the case in depth, and was unable to determine "guilt" or "innocence" (probably due to my limited access to information). On a more personal note, I mourn for Winda as I mourn for Brett the same. Odd, I admit, but true.
I only hope that someday, we all have the courage to face these issues truly, instead of simply say "an eye for an eye" and be done with it. Life, and probably death, are shades of grey.
I read Brett's last words to the warden. "This is not going to defeat me". Again, guilty or innocent, I would like to think the point is that of awareness. Brett asked me to ask "why". I'm asking .. why?
PS.
Diane, if there is anything I can do for you, please let me know what it is. And thank you for these forums! Not only does it give us a place to talk, it gives us hope. That is something we all need!
-Ben
